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Friday, July 3, 2015

When is Minimum inflation the Maximum inflation?

Sometimes the information on inflating tires can lead to some confusion.  OK a lot of the time it can be confusing to many.

As many of you know I try and follow a number of RV forums and offer comments. I try and focus the comments to correcting serious or significant errors or misunderstandings, especially when Safety Related.

Recently there was some confusion about the Maximum allowable inflation for a tire. Some wanted to co-mingle some information from PSR or passenger car tires with information about large TBR, truck bus radials. The discussion then went way off track. Rather than limit my audience to those following that thread, I decided a blog post would be more appropriate. Also I wanted to be sure to have all the information up to date and accurate I contacted an "old friend" from the tire industry and he sent me this nice summary. With his permission I re-print it here.

First some definition of terms may be appropriate as "tire engineer speak" may confuse some.
"Seating pressure" this is the inflation needed for the tire beads to "pop" home against the wheel/
"FMVSS" these are various Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. If you need some reading that will put you to sleep HERE is a link offered by NHTSA.
"PSR"  Passenger steel belted radials or the normal tire you find on todays cars
"TBR" Truck Bus Radial  as found on most Class-A RVs
"LTR"  Light Truck Radials 
"CIP" Cold Inflation Pressure

OK here is the nitty-gritty
"First, the max pressure to seat beads as a matter regarding the technician’s safety is 40 psi, whether passenger, light truck, or truck-bus.  This bead seating pressure is totally independent of the tire maximum operating pressure.

It is important to clarify the differences in sidewall markings of the tires you bring up:

PSR & LTR Tires (load range E or less):  Since FMVSS 139, these tires have sidewall markings indicating maximum load AND maximum pressure.  Maximum load means max [static] load, and maximum pressure means max [operating] pressure (cold).  With respect to the minimum pressure that carries the maximum load there is a difference:

·         Passenger Tires:  These tires are usually marked with a maximum pressure that exceeds the pressure necessary to carry the maximum load marked on the sidewall.  For example, the tire may be marked with 44 psi max pressure, but only requires 35 psi to carry the max load.

·         Light Truck Tires (load range E or less):  These tires are usually marked with a maximum pressure that is also the pressure required to carry the maximum load.  For example, a load range E tire marked with max 80 psi would need that same pressure to carry the max load.

TBR Tires (and light truck load range F and higher):  On these tires the sidewall markings indicate maximum load AT a certain pressure (the word “maximum” is not used in regards to pressure).  Maximum load means max [static] load, but the pressure is not the maximum operating pressure (cold).  This marking just follows FMVSS 119.  Essentially, the pressure marking is informative, simply telling the reader the pressure that is required to carry the maximum rated load.

However, for most practical purposes, on TBR tires the pressure marking is typically considered the maximum pressure recommended in the tire while in ordinary service.  Certain situations may permit cold inflation pressure higher than the marking, usually in consultation with a tire manufacturer for a specific product, application, and service.

Regarding load-inflation tables:  As long as you are looking at the right table, this is where you find the pressures needed to carry certain loads for a given tire type, size, load rating, etc.  Note that for truck-bus, you might need to make sure the tire is a “T&RA tire” or an “ETRTO tire” since the tables can differ, even though the size codes are the same (such as 295/75R22.5).  Also, a tire manufacturer may have unique load-inflation table(s) associated with certain tire models, sizes, etc.

If an operator is running at max load, and the pressure to do that happens to be max pressure, then yes, they need to be diligent.  But it is manageable, and they owe it to themselves and to others on the road to do so.  Pressure loss through permeation requires minimal adjustment approximately once a month.  For predictable swings in temp, set the pressure when it is likely the coldest, and try to consistently check it during those times, such as early in the morning before setting out.  No one is saying that everyone in all circumstances needs to set pressure to +/- 0.1 psi every morning, noon, and night with three hours of ambient cold-soaking before taking measurements.  I agree with you about reducing load; not just due to the tire influence, but also drivetrain/axle and chassis wear and tear, braking performance, fuel economy, etc."

So we see there are similar but different words on the sidewall of tires. Some have a stated Max cold inflation others do not. This is one reason why it best to have tire service done at a store that has the appropriate equipment and training to handle safe and proper mounting and inflation of the type tires you are working with. This does not mean you can't add 5 or even 10 psi to your tires but IMO if you need more than 20% of the CIP there is something wrong and you really need to consider having a professional inspect and re-inflate your tires. Inflating an improperly mounted, improperly repaired or damaged tire can injure or even result in death if not handled properly.
OK now back to our regular programming.
One other comment I have is that many times some think tire failure "Blowout" is caused by too high a pressure but this is essentially incorrect. Unless you have damaged the body ply cords, be they Nylon, Polyester, Steel or Rayon by over flexing and running significantly under-inflated, tires are designed to tolerate the normal pressure increase seen when running highway speeds at the approved load.

But if you have damaged or run the tires in overload or under-inflated for the actual load or perhaps at a speed higher than the tire rating you may have damaged the cord sufficiently that it has lost a portion of its strength so in that case even normal cold inflation may be too high. This is one reason any tire that has been damaged must be rendered un-usable or if it appears to be OK then inflated in a Safety Cage.

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Tuesday, June 23, 2015

Help It's hot and I need tires

That's the message I read on an RV forum.
Here is the pertinent background info.

   "I am having a real issue with Michelin tires.  I live in Las Vegas and there are 3 tire companies that carry Michelin tires.  The problem is they all tell me they are back ordered and have been for awhile.  They have no idea when they will get any.  I have a 40' 2008 RV that came with Goodyear tires and have serviced us well.  I just don't know what do do since I can't get Michelin tires which seems to be the tire to get. Should I settle for Goodyears that are in stock?  My other issue is we are going on a trip next week that we can't get out of and because of the extreme heat here in Vegas we are afraid that our old tires might just fly apart. What should I do?"


While I can't address tire availability from Michelin, you need to remember that there are generally considered to be 3 tiers of tire companies. Michelin, Bridgestone & Goodyear as #1 with the tires made & sold by these companies as being essentially the same  ie Firestone & Dayton ~ Bridgestone, Kelly & Dunlop~ Goodyear and Goodrich & Uniroyal ~ Michelin.

Now there are some minor differences within a corporation but many times the rubber compounds and reinforcement materials are identical or very similar. Tread designs may be a bit more advances in the Corporate brand and the top of the line tires may not have an equivalent in the 2nd brand  but for most people you will not see a difference in performance.

#1 tier have their own tire stores with many hundred nationwide.

Now Tier #2 would be tires made by corporations that have their own tire plants. These would be companies like Toyo, Pirelli, and others seen on this list. They may not have any company stores and jsut depend on large tire distributors to market their tires.

3rd tire would be companies that are not on the list above. These may actually be just sales companies the have other companies make lower cost product for them as "private brand" , Sometimes the same tire is made for a number of importers with only a name-plate change in the mold to differentiate the "brand" These companies seldom have their own stores but sell their products through wholesalers.

Check the tire warranty and I think you can get a good feeling for the real quality of the tires you might be considering. Are there lots of exceptions or if the warranty short could be a tip off that the seller isn't real willing to stand behind the products they are selling

Now to your concern about your current tires and the hot temperature.  It's kind of hard offering an opinion or suggestion on if you need new tires right away or not, but tires simply do not fail simply because it is hot outside. Excess heat is not good for long term durability but if the tires have always been properly inflated, never been punctures or run even a few psi low you should be OK for a while.

You didn't offer your actual age of your tires but they are probably 7 to 8 years old. You also failed to provide info on how you store your tires. Inside or out in the Sun? Do you have a lot or a little extra load capacity based on actual individual tire position weights? Do you run a TPMS and have never run lower than what is needed to carry your actual measured load. All of these items can contribute to making a suggestion to change your tires right away or suggesting that you can wait a few weeks or months.

If concerned about road or ambient temperature just drop the speed down. Don't run 70 when 60 will still get you there. Last Aug I drove Ohio to Oregon at 60 - 62 with no problem.

Can you increase your tire pressure without exceeding the tire or wheel max?

Where are you headed?  Have you checked to see if there is a large tire dealer at a future location that has tires for your RV in stock?

In the meantime I would suggest you go to a Goodyear truck tire dealer and have the tires inspected. Let them know your concern about the tire age and current hot temp in Vegas. Let them know your actual scale weights (Go to a local truck scale location first. There are a number around Vegas I'm sure)  and your normal cold inflation. WHile there ask if they would confirm the accuracy of your pressure gauge. If a stick type +/- 5 is about what I would expect. If digital (better) +/- 2 would be good. If outside these numbers you need a new gauge. Check my blog on tire gauges and how to have a reliable "Master Gauge" of your own for less than $15.
The tech should be familiar with the Goodyear tires you have so can offer first hand information on the condition of your tires.
Remember you can always get just the two fronts replaced as a failure there would be the greatest concern. With a TPM on the rear duals a failure would be less dramatic and you should get plenty of warning so you can safely pull over quickly before serious damage is done.

It would be nice to be able to offer more specific answer to his question but all to often people fail to provide important information that would allow more than a wild guess.

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